The Biggest Mistake Athletes Make When Building Training Volume

Building a training plan isn’t just about adding more miles each week.

In this episode, we break down one of the most misunderstood concepts in endurance training: how to build volume the right way — without burning out, breaking down, or blindly following rules that don’t apply to you.

We walk through how coaches actually think about progressing volume, why increasing intensity and volume at the same time is a common mistake, and how to structure your training in a way that your body can actually absorb.

You’ll also learn why there is no such thing as a “perfect” training plan — and what actually matters if you want to make consistent progress.

Whether you’re training for your first race or trying to take your performance to the next level, this episode will help you approach your training with more clarity and confidence.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

•  How to safely build training volume over time 
•  Why you shouldn’t increase volume and intensity together 
•  The difference between weekly volume and individual workout progression 
•  How to structure training using step-wise or block-based approaches 
•  Why “one-size-fits-all” training plans don’t work 
•  How to adjust your training based on real life and recovery

Timestamps:

00:00 – Why Volume Matters in Your Training Plan
02:30 – Assessing Your Starting Point as an Athlete
05:00 – How to Progress Volume Safely (Step-by-Step)
08:15 – Setting Peak Volume and Planning Your Taper
12:00 – Adjusting Volume Based on Experience Level
15:00 – The Truth About the 10% Rule
18:40 – Managing Volume in Multi-Sport Training
22:50 – Why the 80/20 Rule Doesn’t Work for Everyone
27:00 – Using Feedback to Adjust Your Training Plan
32:00 – Data vs. Feel: How Coaches Actually Plan Training
36:20 – The Art vs. Science of Coaching
41:00 – Why Communication Matters in Training Success
44:00 – When (and How) to Pivot Your Plan
48:00 – Key Takeaways: Build Smarter, Not Just More

Key Takeaways:

•  Progression should be gradual — not forced 
•  Your training plan must adapt to your life, not the other way around 
•  The best plan is the one you can consistently execute and recover from

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For coaching inquiries:

Coach Katie → https://fuel2run.com

Coach Justin → https://tabularasaracing.com

Podcast Email → theenduranceathletejourney@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to the Endurance Athlete Journey podcast. This is Coach Katie. I'm jumping in to get this podcast started. We broke the podcast into two parts. And so the first part we did last week, that was episode 81. And that one was on sort of how we think about formulating a training plan or some of the questions, some of the even deeper questions we might ask our athletes or ask ourselves before we start thinking about a training plan, planning, putting that into motion. And so that's our part one, kind of building the foundation. This podcast that we're releasing today is going to be on how we think about volume. So how we think about building volume for the training plan. And so that's what we're going to dive into right now. And then the third part we're going to talk next week about how we think about scheduling the week. So how we think about scheduling each workout through the week and sort of more of the like nitty-gritty into how we think about building a plan week to week. So today we'll be chatting all about volume. I really hope you enjoy and we're going to get started right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

And so now let's start to frame this house up. So now that we've kind we've had the the consultative part of the discussion, now it's our job as a coach to sit down and start to map this out. So now that you've gotten this information from this athlete, what what's your method for building building the bones or the structure of a training plan? Um how how do you go about doing that?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I think like obviously we've kind of figured out where they're at. I'll ask if they're doing any sort of intensity currently. Like what um are they doing workouts? You know, maybe they're not, because this is maybe the beginner athlete, but if it's somebody that's coming to me and they've already been doing some workouts, I like to also figure out what intensity they're at because generally the way I do training plans is it's just like a regular kind of periodized plan where I'll build up their volume first. And so um oftentimes with that, I will keep the intensity generally the same. So it's not that I'm gonna be taking the intensity out, but it's more just like getting an idea of their current intensity because maybe they're doing one workout a week and I want to kind of keep that about the same initially and just kind of build up the the volume slowly. So usually the way I do that is like by, you know, kind of figure out what their max is going to be based off time or distance, depending on what we've determined. And then I'm gonna slowly, maybe five to 10% a week, just kind of slowly build up that that volume. And that most of that is going to be that sort of easier aerobic zone two, maybe max zone three running. And then maybe I'll do that. Okay, they've been doing one workout a week. I'm gonna kind of keep that one high intensity day. I might add some strides or hill sprints, just little bits like that throughout the week, but I'm not adding a whole lot of intensity. It's just building up the volume and getting to slowly to that point. So within that, it might be like building it up, maybe coming back a little bit, like a down week or a um cutback week, and then building up and then cutting and sort of, okay, eventually they're gonna get to their goal volume. And then I might be like, okay, let's be there for get sit in that, you know, a little bit. And then once they're sort of comfortably, I know that they can handle that volume. I know that they can be there and not, you know, not have injury and they're able to handle the time it takes and all that, then it's kind of like building in some intensity. And that can look a few different ways depending on what their race is. Like it might be simultaneously increasing intensity and lowering volume, or it may be slightly lower, like for a marathon, I might slightly lower volume, but keep it pretty relatively higher and keep and then up the intensity a little bit more. Um it might look different ways depending on the person and their race, but that's sort of how I'm building it. So the volume is kind of increasing, and then towards um depending on how much time they have, but maybe the last month or so before six weeks before the race, that might be starting to shift a little bit intensity and volume. But um, so maybe I'm adding an additional workout or some additional um intensity to the long run or something like that. But it's um that's how I'm thinking about it anyway. So that's how I do it for runners. I know it's probably a little bit different for triathletes, um who maybe and because that when you have three sports, sometimes people are focusing more on one discipline than others. So I know there's a more complicated probably equation there. But for runners, the nice thing is, yeah, I mean, I I didn't even mention strength training and all that, but I'm just purely talking about run volume. Um, that's kind of how I approach it, is just sort of like a stepwise approach and then kind of cutting back a little bit, letting them recover, stepping it up, coming back, stepping it up, and then maybe getting to that max volume and then slowly adding in intensity. But I never do intensity and volume at the same time, usually, because I think unless like there may be some times when I'm more, very, very more slowly adding in volume and slowly adding in intensity, but I'm not usually doing both at the same time because that can really increase somebody's risk of injury when you're sort of both of those things are being um increased. I think that's a common thing mistake people make actually is not only increasing their volume, but then they start increasing intensity a bunch and adding all these different workouts in all the time. And that is a big recipe, I think, for injury. And I think that's a major mistake people make a lot.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

So yeah. I wanna I wanna give some bones to this a little bit because we've just been talking in general terms of of volume and intensity. So let's say that you sat down with this athlete and you you're now mapping out uh what their total weekly volume is going to be. And so let's say that you you say that you want their long their their biggest volume week to be X number of miles or X number of hours. How do you go about creating the other weeks based on that one anchor point? So if you say that, you know, I want I want this training plan to be uh 70 70 miles a week, and I want that to be if it's a if it's an eight week, an 18-week plan or 20, let's just say 20 weeks because it's a nice round number, let's say at 10 weeks, or now let's just say uh at 15 weeks, I want them to be at their peak mileage. Right. Because then then that gives me enough time to taper uh taper them down a little bit, and we're not just going from 70 miles a week down to 50. We're gonna do like a slow, a slower tape or more gradual taper. So at 15 weeks, I want them to be at their peak mileage. How do you go back and and then back into weeks?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

I might want them to be at their peak mileage a little sooner than that, maybe like maybe around 14 or 12, 13 weeks potentially. Like I kind of want to get them there, have them there a little bit before I start bringing them down. Because I think it's helpful to have consistency at a certain volume, honestly. The whole reason we're building into volume is to kind of hold it there a bit, I think, is helpful.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

You know, and and so depends on the athlete, but um and their experience, you know, maybe they they only hold it there a couple of weeks and then kind of you know, bring the intensity up and bring the volume down. But for someone that maybe is a more experienced, I think having more d more weeks where they're kind of at that intensity and they're sort of sitting in that a little bit is helpful. But um, so I it it patterns a little bit, but maybe they're starting at like 50 miles a week, you know. But maybe they're most they've done, they have done 70 before, so or something like that. So you know they can kind of accomplish it. It would be something like maybe again, that 10, 5 to 10% rule. I can't in my head the math, but it's like maybe I do 50, you know, slowly kind of ramp it up maybe to 55, but then it's kind of slow. So it's somewhere in between like maybe two to five or six miles a week. So you're sort of ramping it like two, like fifty-two, fifty-three, maybe fifty-seven, then maybe sixty, and then it's back down to like forty-five or fifty. You know, like and then okay, okay, now we're starting at fifty-five or fifty-seven, then sixty, then sixty-two. Like it's just just kind of like very slow increase. I'm never increasing it more like anything crazy. I would never generally increase it unless someone's already running, like, I don't know, even at this, like if somebody were already doing a hundred mile weeks or something, I'm still not gonna increase it by 10 miles increment. So it's very, it's a very slow, like, yeah. And that's how I do my own training plan. It's kind of like if you looked at it, if I were to share training peaks and sort of my I put on the each week I kind of put my goal volume in there, it's it's generally slow. Like so this week was kind of had to be a forced cutback week, but next week, but I hit 66 last week. It was a little higher than I meant to, but it's okay because I had this this week, this last week was or this particular week is cut back, but then I go back to 60, 60, it'll be 60, I think 65, and then maybe just between 65 and 70, and then maybe maybe 70, and then a cutback week. And 70 is where I'm maxing out at. So I'll I'll do that, I'll do the cutback week, and then I'll kind of hit, then kind of go back up real close to 70, maybe 65, 70, 70, cutback. And then I think that's around the time I start to like bring my volume down a little bit, and the intensity is a little bit changing at that point. I'm doing more like race specific like training, like race pace, more specific. Right now, my volume, my intensity is more like a lot of slow running and some very fast running, very small amounts of faster running, but like a lot of slow, easy running, right? And then the intensity changes as I so that's kind of how I would build it. Like if it's something like that, like for a 5k, if somebody has their max 40, it, you know, maybe it's they're starting at 30 or 20, you know, again, it's kind of that slow. Maybe it's a little slower, because it may be like two to maybe max three m miles a week of increasing. Yeah, that's how I think about it. It's pretty like maybe if it's hours, that's another one. Like if somebody's really doing it in hours, it's a little trickier because for me, because I don't usually think in hours, but like um maybe an hour, you know, if they start at five hours, then it's kind of like maybe half an hour a week or so, like something like that, depending. Um, so it's it's just slow. I don't ever want to jump someone up too quickly because I also want to sort of test to see like how is this week going? Like, how are you feeling? Are you recovering enough? Like you're asking all these questions. And once there's signs potentially that somebody's not recovering, their workouts, performance, and workouts are not going well, I think then there's a series of questions I'm asking, like fueling and is it is it the training itself, or is there something outside of the training that's making it harder for you to recover? Sometimes somebody will have a goal, and I they get close to that goal and they're starting things are starting to unravel a little bit, and it's like, and you know, maybe they're doing everything they can. That's just life stress or something else they didn't anticipate. I'll just be like, Yeah, we're not you you're capping out at 60, you know, like with within that we're gonna do the best we can to get the quality, you know, and maybe we we uh then the intensity comes in maybe a little earlier, we just do something different to make sure you still get the stimulus, but you're not gonna be able to make it to seven, you know? Or maybe they just cross-training involved actually.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

There's some research lately that came out, and I'm trying to remember on where I saw this, but the old the old age-old rules that we never increase more than 10% week over week. Um they seem to have started to clarify this direction a little bit more where they say it's not just the 10% week over week. We don't want to increase a particular workout more than 10%. So it means that we could actually grow we could actually grow we could grow your weekly volume more than 10%, but let's say that we don't want to grow your long run more than 10%.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

So we when we talk about like the weekly training, but absolutely I'm not gonna have like my training, like it's been with the long run, it's kind of like this very slow progression of like 10, I would do 10, 12, 13, 14, 10, 14, 15, 16, 10. Like it's like this has been happen this has been growing, this long run progression over like even before I started training, right? I started my marathon training, I was already like up to like 14 or 15 miles because I built it. So then from here, it's like this week I cut back to twelve. Last week I did 16, then I do 12, then I might do 18, and then back, and then twenty nineteen, and then back, and then I'll be at twenty and I'll hit twenty three times before my marathon. But it's been a building process. Like I never I would never recommend somebody go from 10 miles a week to late or their long run to 20. That's a recipe for not a good idea, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

So for for for most for most athletes, unless you're highly experienced and you've been running for a really long time, even just going from 10 miles to 12 miles week over week. It's too much. Um, because that's an increase of 20%.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Um and so that's why it's kind of like for me, it's just it's like a one mile uh you know, maybe 10 minute addition. And some of my athletes who are doing it more bit time-based, it's like literally maybe five minutes a week to their long run, some of them. Like it's like, oh, okay, an hour 10, hour 15, hour 20, hour thirty, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

And sometimes it might be 10, but it's I mean, technically you could go from a 50 mile a week and then the very next week you could do 60. Because I mean that's that's a 20% increase week over week. You could do that, yeah. But the the pro the issue is that we're not going to grow that long run more than 10%. So that means that we're taking those extra miles and we're distributing them across the other runs as well. And so I don't I don't want people to think that, well, I can't grow it more than 10% week over week. No, you can. You just have to be careful on how you grow individual workouts, which we'll go we'll go more in depth into to episode two of this series.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And I just I just tend to be a little bit more like I don't know, like cautious of that. I I think you can yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

The very specific kind of athlete that you could do that with.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

That's uh and as somebody that's experienced, like maybe they just kind of baseline their all they they maybe their max volume is 80 and they're just baseline at 50, but but they've been at 80 before several times miles a week, you know, and so maybe they can just jump right up to 60 initially and just spread that out. You know what I mean? Like that type of situation, yeah. I wouldn't be like, okay, now, you know, they're already ready to start their marathon training, and they're just like, okay, now I'm gonna bump it up to 60 and then slowly kind of ramp it up from there. Like I definitely think there are times, you're absolutely right, there are times where it is okay to bump it the weekly mileage up and the volume up a little bit quicker. Um, but it for a new athlete, I'm usually a little bit more cautious because agreed. I don't know. You know, we just I just yeah, I don't I don't know them. They don't have the experience and and the the time um on their feet already to like, you know, build I I feel like takes time, like in my opinion. I've run running all these years. Like I'm at a point where I can maybe bump up my mileage a little bit more in one week and take the take the hit. Like I think of when I was doing my ultra, I was doing mostly 50 to 60 mile weeks. I had one week where I did a double weekend, a double back-to-back long run, um, like a 30 mile run and then a 16 mile run. So it means I my whole week was like my weekend was almost 50 miles of running and it was a total of 78 miles that week. Well, that was a huge bump from like maybe 60 uh average to 78. But because I had all this experience and I did take a recovery week the next week, I was able to handle that just fine, you know, no issue. But I don't generally think that's what I would recommend, you know, to dependent on the athlete, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:00

So I don't want people to think that they actually have to increase volume week over week. I mean, uh I've used a model before where I did them in I did it in two-week blocks. So I would I would grow volume every other week, and then the that second week, I would keep volume constant and increase intensity. And so something was always changing, so it was either going to be the amount of time that I was training or the intensity in which I was training in. But you know, I would do the two-week blocks, and so I don't want people to think it's like, oh, well, you know, I have to increase week over week. You absolutely do not have to do that. You can use this stepwise function where it's like two weeks at the same at the same volume, but you're changing the intensity mixture uh of that, but you don't increase volume and intensity in the same week. So that's why I like that every other week.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I think that's great for somebody who maybe doesn't already have some intensity because you want to build in the intensity, you do need, I think it's important to have some intensity. I think that would be a great example for somebody that, you know, yeah, they want to build volume and they they need to build some intensity in at the same time, sort of, but you don't do it like each week you're either it's either intensity or volume, not both. So you focus on one and then the next week it's the next. Yeah. That's where it gets complicated, I think, because there are so many ways to kind of think of this. We didn't even talk about the reverse training of like starting with the intensity and then doing the intensity first and then building the volume or what you know. So um, and depending on the goal of the athlete, what they need to focus on, because some people do really need to focus on speed. Like maybe that's their limiting factor. And so somebody that really I like really you'd benefit from more speed, I might have them do more, like a lot of 5K specific work, even if their goal is the marathon initially, and then I build in some volume, and then we kind of switch over to more marathon-paced stuff. But it's like it's it it's so individual, it's hard. I think that's where it gets complicated because it's so hard. I think I think people want like the easy answers. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

I'm glad that you yeah. I'm glad you bring this up because uh if you if you go out on social media, you you almost kind of think it's like, okay, well, what what's the optimal plan? Um, or even if you go onto some AI platform and you're just like, give me the optimal training plan for uh a half marathon. I can tell you right now, there is no optimal plan. Uh the plan is going to be whatever plan that you're able to execute and absorb uh absorb distress. That's the optimal plan. Um are there particular methods and strategies that that you can use to develop a plan? Absolutely. But there's many, many different ways. And I think that a lot of people tend to rely on this 80-20 rule way too much. Um I I think that it is a valid training method for some for some athletes. Yeah. Um, but it is by no means a standard in which you have to implement. It's not optimal for everyone. And so if you think of it, it's it's it's one particular person's methodology for training. So if you go and you talk to 10 different coaches and you say what's your method of training, you're gonna get 10 different training plans. I can I can almost guarantee you. And so that's the way that I think about these methods, like you know, the run walk method or the 80-20 rule. You know, these these sorts of things, these are strategies for training. And like I said, you talk to 10 different coaches, you're gonna get 10 different strategies. Doesn't mean that one is right and the other is wrong. It just means that they're all different. And we would use you could talk to the same coach and have that coach talk to 10 different athletes and have 10 different training plan strategies. So it's so athlete specific, you you have to coach the individual, is what I'm getting at. And so relying on you know our methods like, oh, this is the method. No, it's a method for for getting there. It doesn't make it the only method, and it doesn't make it the optimal or right method. So I want to keep that.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Right. Um, I think a lot of the like I think of AD 20, that's a lot based off of looking at um like elite athletes who spend it was founded on like cross-country skiers that were like, Yeah, it's like when they're but they're all but they're Olympian, they're like elite athletes that do a lot of volume. So they their volume, I'm thinking of like elite runners as an example doing 120 miles a week. Obviously, they can't do a lot of all a good portion of that at high intensity.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

But but they're so they a good amount of that is at lower intensity and high volume volume. So that it comes out to be about 80 20, and then they're sort of extrapolating. Well, they're these elites are doing it, so this is what other people should be doing. I'll tell you now, mine plan is not generally 80 20, it's probably More like 60, 40, 70, 30, because um I do better if I have a little bit more intensity. And I do spend time in the gray zone. You know, some people say, Don't ever be in zone three. Well, as a marathon runner, like probably a good majority of my race is gonna be in zone three. You know what I mean? So I have to I have to be there. I have to spend time there. Otherwise, I'm not gonna know what that's like when I get there. So I feel like there's a lot of like stuff out there that people say that I just think, well, maybe that works for like a 5K runner. You maybe don't want to spend a lot of your time in that gray zone, but it doesn't really extrapolate to every single type of racer. It's just, and you do hear those like really, I think that's part of the thing is you hear those like very blanket like influencers, like, oh, 80-20, like that, they're so sure of it. And I always am a little I I'm always reluctant. I know people want something very like this is the answer. However, when people I I think in in a lot of situations, there's a lot of like gray area and a lot of nuance. And when somebody is so sure of their answer, like this is the way to go, that to me is a red flag that that person doesn't actually know what they're talking about. I'm gonna be real blunt here. When somebody is so sure, like so absolutely sure that this method of training or this particular thing is the way to go for everyone, especially if there's sort of blanket statement, like this is the way everybody should train. I think you should just like not follow that person anymore because they obviously do not know at all what they're talking about. That's a red flag. But I think unfortunately that people are attracted to those people that because it there's like a black and white thinking of like, I want the answer. And this person seems so sure of themselves that they know the answer, but they probably don't. And in fact, if they're saying that so assuredly, they absolutely do not, I'll tell you right now. So please just be aware of that. I'm just saying that because I I've seen it and I know. Um, and we're here tonight, like Justin and I we know like there's a nuance to this topic, and it says individual, and there is no one size fits all fits all when it comes to trading. And um that's because that's that's probably more likely the truth. I think we could probably have some like takeaways from this episode that maybe people, you know, we can at least leave with a few takeaways maybe that people can kind of take with them that they can use, but we're not going to be able to give you an answer for you specifically, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Um I mean, I I can I can briefly kind of talk about how I set up a training plan. Yeah, go ahead. I want you to, yeah. I I'll talk about it in terms of of a multi-sport or like a traffic. It's relevant to sport specific as well. So what I typically will do is I have an idea on what I want their like their long ride to be. And so I'll tell you, like when I set up my training plan for Florida, I said, I want my long ride to be four and a half hours long. I don't I don't want it to be any higher than that. And I said, Well, I know that I want my long ride to be 45, like 35 to 45 percent of my total weekly bike volume. And so then if I know what my long ride is, I can then calculate what my total weekly volume is going to be for that particular sport, and I'll do that for running as well. For running is a little bit, it's a little bit it's not as aggressive. So I say I I know that my long run, if I if I have a long run in my plan, I've developed plans where I don't have long runs at all. Where I want my long run, my long run to be 30% of my weekly volume, and I want my long run to be uh like you know one and a half hours, no longer than that. Then I can calculate what my weekly volume is going to be for that week. And so now I've got what my total bike volume is going to be. I know what my total run volume is going to be for that week, and I typically will say, you know, my swim volume is anywhere between 3,000 to 3,500 for a half for a half Iron Man. I I I don't typically like I'll build slowly for for the swim, but nothing, you know, I I can handle the the higher swim volume and keep it there uh because we're swimming no more than probably like three days a week, where the bike volume can be anywhere between four to five days, runs four to five days, swims are three days, and that's how you know I kind of will distribute that load. And then I have two to three days of strength training uh in there as well, or two to three sessions of strength training, and then that gives me that week's volume. And now I say, okay, now I want to back into what all the previous weeks are going to look like. And so I'll say, you know, I want to go, do I want to go with a three on, one off? Do I want to go four on, one off? And then I just will toy around with growth rates. And so I'll say, I'm going to grow, I'm going to grow my run by 10% uh each for each three weeks in the block. And the fourth week, I'm going to take that fourth week and I'm going to actually decrease it by 15%. And then that gives me that four-week block. And I'll do the same thing for the bike. So for the bike, I may say, you know what, I can grow, I can grow my bike faster at a faster rate than I can grow running. So if I'm only going to grow running 10%, I can say, I'm going to grow my bike volume by 15 to 20% because it's non-impact. And I know that if I can effectively overtrain on the bike, it's really good, it's still going to help me on the run. It's not a substitute for running, but it if I can build deep bike fitness, it's going to help when I get off the bike and be able to run well. And so I'm okay with over-training on the bike. I'm okay with over-training on the swim. I'm not okay with over-training on the run. That's the one that we really have to pay close attention to. And so I say, well, now let's now let's change the bike. So let's go, we're going to grow this by 15 to 20% each week for the three weeks, and then decrease by 15% that fourth week. And that gives me my four-week block. And then for the for the swimming, I can say, well, you know, I'm just going to hold it at, you know, let's say 3,000 yards for each session at this phase of the training plans. Basically, what we've done is we've now calculated the last, like the next to last four-week block, because then I got to save some time for the taper at the end. And so I say, well, I've got this four-week block. I'm okay with the highest swim volume being in this block. And now I'm going to gradually roll this back a little bit so that I'm kind of building. So when you look back at it, you can see that there's a natural progression of increasing swim volume, swim increasing bike volume, increasing run volume. They're all changing at different rates, but they're still kind of increasing and following the same pattern. This increase, increase, increase, increase, drop. Increase, increase, increase, drop. So like you do, you know, I'd still some athletes I will do that, uh, depending on how much time we have, on whether I build in uh rollback weeks. Uh, I'm working with an athlete now where we're I didn't build in a rollback week for her uh because we just didn't have the time to do that. I'm I'm effectively managing sometimes the stress. So I'm able to increase, but I do the run, I design the runs in a way that minimizes that stress without needing the rollback weeks. Uh so it's by no means a requirement that you have to have.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

I think with triathlon, triathlon like a triathlon too, like you because the stress of the run is so um such a the big bigger piece, like the mechanical load and all of that. So you could I wonder too, like if within the plan in that set in that situation, you could maybe keep the volume total time the same, but maybe you're just rolling back a little bit on the run. You know, like you're saying, like maybe you're just kind of rolling back on the run a little bit or some aspect of it, but you're kind of keeping you're maybe increasing the I mean, because you have the other sports, you can kind of like okay, we're gonna do an extra a little extra on the swim because you need some extra time in the water or you need a longer bike, and because you can maybe do a little bit more volume on the bike. So I think that's the nice thing about it's tricky with triathlon because you have the three, so you're managing all three, and I think sometimes triathletes tend to overdo it, but um like just some my experience. But but the nice thing is you can um you can kind of do like a roll back, but you're not you're still keeping the volume or that's the truth truth probably for runners too. You could maybe like if you're doing some level of um cross-training, but you still want to keep some volume, you could decrease the running and then add in a little, you know, not go crazy on it, but you could add like an elliptical or bike to it if you're already doing it. I'm not thinking it's a great idea to add that in if you on those rollback weeks, if you haven't already been doing some aspect of that, but there is like when it comes to cross-training, some some manipulation, but you can yeah, I think that's um that helps. I think what you're saying is it's a little more complicated, or just thought process going into like those three different disciplines and how you're managing that versus maybe running is a little more simplified because it's just the the one, but that is helpful to kind of I do like to look at it on on a graph.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

And so what I'll do is I'll set up a spreadsheet because I mean that's that's the way that my brain works. Um so I I've got the spreadsheet, and I'll have like I'll have four graphs uh on this on the spreadsheet. One is like a swim only graph, then I have a run-only graph, a bike only graph, and then an aggregate which has all of it. And so I can s I can see I can see the progression in each of them. It's like, okay, well that looks good, that looks good, oh that's too steep. Um I don't like that I don't like that pattern. And so then I'll go back and I'll adjust the growth rates. And so you know, I have I build all these functions in there, so it's like I you know, I have like 15% in this graph or on this series, and then 10% over here, and then 20% over here, and I just change those those percentages, which is my my weekly growth rate. I keep the uh the rollback week at a decline of 15%. And so then by changing just those few numbers, I can change the tr uh the pitch of of the line so where I can see their volume. It's like okay, I like that better. That one that doesn't have any steepness to it. It's got a nice slow progression. I had the growth rate a little bit wrong. Um, but then that allows me to look at each of the sports individually, but then I also have to pay a lot of attention to okay, what's it on aggregate? Because you know, these aren't siloed, siloed things. So it's not like, oh, I can recover bike from bike training differently than I can recover from from run training when you stack them all together. It's still stress on the body, and that's what I have to manage.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

And I think that's where like that weekly when we kind of dive into like that, because we're talking more like this overview, and when we dive into that like week to week, I think it'll be interesting to hear how you put that into a week, like how you're putting those workouts together in a week. And I know it might that's a part part is it does depend athlete to athlete what their kind of focus is and what their race is, but it I yeah, I think that's where you do that. And then how do you put it in each individual workout together into a week for something like triathlon? Because I have, again, I like my ideas for running. Like sometimes I'll work with triathletes who are just wanting to focus on running and I have an idea, like maybe they have the other the other parts of their training plan kind of set, and I'm just building in the running, so I'm keeping that in mind. Like I have idea ideas for that, but I don't build in their swim or their bike exactly. So I'm kind of looking at that. I mean, maybe I'm giving input on it. But I have had people who are like, I just want to focus on the run. And it's a little harder because I'm not um because I don't have as much experience with the other two sports, but I do, you know, the but I still have an idea, but it's but I think that'll be interesting when we kind of build in then the next step is like the the week. How do we think about our week? Um when we've got the volume set, what are we gonna do week to week?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Um I like this, I like this aggregate graph where it combines to the other ones because then I can see, like I said, I'm managing total stress. And so if I see that that that aggregate line is growing too quickly or there's too many spikes, then I know that the composition of that aggregate graph needs to change. So that may mean that I go from five bike workouts a week to only four, and that can change how that aggregate line increases over time by changing the proportion that each sport contributes to that line. And so it's a very, very kind of math, math-centric method that I have simply because that's my background. Uh, you're like that's that's where I'm more like that's where I that's that's where my education lies. I've been doing this for for decades in terms of you know like analytics, and I'm just very math driven, and that's how I implement this in my coaching business as well, and how I set up plans. It's very very math mathy. I'm not as mathy.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

I'm more I don't know, like just stuff. I I don't know. Like I I do look at that like dog.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

The way that I view the way that I view your method is very intuitive, and I think it's because you've been doing this for so long. I like so much. But I think it's it's part of it.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Like I think it's just the art of it. Like the art. Like I I'm my background is not only in exercise science and nutrition, but many people don't know this about me. I have an undergraduate degree in studio art as well. So I don't know if you do that about me.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

I don't think I do that about you.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

That was my dual major, so in undergrad, I did a studio art major. So I think I think I'm just like that's my brain is more like, yeah, not intuitive, like looking at it, and somehow by it's like the art and design of the training plan. I do think uh I do come I do consider like volume and intensity, and and I'm like I I do look at different metrics, but I I also just kind of can see it and conceptualize it.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

And um well, yeah, I think it's just doing it for so long and having my own experience with it, it is more of an art for me, not so much of the mathematical side. So it's interesting how like your brain is looking at it one way. And I can't say I don't like add it, I don't look at different metrics and I'm not like like paying attention to some of the things that even training peaks kind of like creates in terms of their outputs and things to make sure I'm not like overloading someone, but it's more of a feel thing too. It's like how I want to know, that's why I want my athletes to comment. Like, how are you feeling? How you know, it's how are things going? I'm looking at how their workouts went and if they're hitting like the times or if they're you know, so it's it's more day-to-day individual workouts. How is that gonna influence the next week? And it's so much more of a feel and it's more of a craft. I don't know. Like I can't, I wish I could like explain it better than that.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

So I think you bring it up. I think you bring up a great point. And it's because I think we've we've talked about how much time we spend building this framework of the house. We framed the house now, so you guys know how each of us build kind of the bones of the training plan, but we haven't put any skin on it yet. But the idea is that these training plans are developed in pencil, right? And I'm glad that you bring this up. It's like the comments. I I try to encourage my athletes to do the same thing. It's like, I need I need comments because I can have all the math equations that I want, and I know that, you know, hey, I've increased this by this percent, I've increased that by this percent. And so you should be able to handle this. But I don't know unless you tell me how you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

I always have to tell me, like, you have like, please put something in the comments, or if I don't see it, I will put some I will reach out. Like, how did this workout go? What were you what like subjectively, how did this feel to you? I mean, you looks like it went well based off the metrics, but what it, you know, especially like long runs and things like that, because I need to know do I need to give you extra recovery? Like, is this and then the whole next week might change because of that long run was especially difficult, or they were having a little something going on with their knee or something like that. So it's like, I need that information, and then that's kind of where the art of it comes in, is like, okay, like the the it is never written in stone. In fact, like so a lot of times I might put workouts in the future, but I oftentimes it's big, kind of. It's just like an out, it's like a general backbone of kind of the way I want it to flow. And then each week I'm putting in or a couple weeks ahead of time so they have some time to prepare and putting in the actual workouts. So it's very, very like that's just how I work. It's very backbony, like these some ideas of when the workouts are gonna be there and nothing's really structured in there. And then as the workout, as the plan progresses, I'm putting in all the details every couple weeks out. So I don't put in all that information like out. And sometimes it's week to week depending on the person and what they prefer. But just because it is a craft, it it there is an art to, and that there's that book I was reading, a practice of change. It kind of like that's why I like this book, is because it's because it kind of resonated with it the way I put the training plans together. There is a like a a piece of it that it's creating, yeah. Like it's not just like scientific. Like you said, you do that too. Like you, you know, as a good coach, we'll you we'll take not only like the mathematical equations and like the the the very methodical way of doing it, but we'll also take in all the other pieces of how you're feeling and how the workouts are going, and it's a craft. You're crafting something, you're creating something, and that's how I that's almost why I love doing training plans because it is I like that piece of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Instances where you know we've developed this this training plan. I'm I'm projecting to increase you next week. But if you tell me that, you know, hey, this was a really rough week, uh, it was a lot more stress at work or something, and I'm just not recovering very well, then I have to make that adjustment and not probably not increase you the next week, and let's just hold it steady and let you let you get a chance to get caught up. Right. You can also have that on the flip side where you have a down week that's coming and you're you're just progressing, you're rolling, you are motivated, you are feeling fantastic. I may not give you that rollback week. I'm just like, we're gonna grab this momentum while we still can, while it's still here. Let's grab it by the horns and let's roll with it. So no rollback week, we're going, we're going forward. And so it's it is a training plan is a living organism, and that's the only way that I can explain it. It changes, it moves, it flows, and there's there's outside forces that can influence it. There's all kinds of stuff that can that can change it. And so the reason that I say this is because, and I'm guilty of this as well, as an athlete myself. Um this is the plan, I'm executing this plan, and I'm rolling with it. And I almost completely disregard how I'm feeling and how my body is progressing, but this is my plan.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

But you do that for your athletes, I guess. It's weird to me.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Like it's so different when it comes to like actually helping my athletes.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

I am uh I like this week's an example. Like I know we sort of talked about this, but I had it was like hot, it's like 85 degrees, and I try to do a workout Thursday night. I usually choose to do do the workouts in the morning, but I had to like after I was done with my work at the hospital that I just do that job once in a while, but it it just happened this way. It's 85 degrees out, and I'm trying to do a workout. And at some point halfway in, I'm like, this isn't working. I just have to be realistic. So then the next day I was gonna try again, again. It's like, this is just this workout, this whatever I'm trying to do here, it's just this is the my body, it's maybe too much work, too much of the work, too much of the heat. I don't know, but I'm just gonna have to take the rest of this run easy. The workout that I was supposed to do this week is just kind of totally awash. And then I'm also kind of thinking ahead, like, I have a longer, like not a long run tomorrow, but 12 miles. But if that doesn't go well, I might have to kind of rethink, unfortunately, next week a little bit too, because I was gonna front load the week a bit because I had a half marathon at the end of it. And, you know, I don't want to do this because I do want to get some volume, but I might have to take that week a little easier than I wanted, also, if I can't sort of regain some of this momentum and feel better, right? And so that's just an example. Like it's just that I'm usually I'm better about it now with myself. I could have kept pushing through in that workout and then I would have been, I mean, my body just wasn't used to the heat.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

I mean, that it's 85 in March isn't normal, but you know, so I will say I will say I've gotten better at listening to my body, but the reason that I bring this up is that because athletes will tend to buy these template training plans where they go and they ask, you know, Chat GPT, hey, give give me this training plan, and they don't understand how to allow that training plan to adapt to the ever-changing dynamic of of aerobic of aerobic training and conditioning.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

It it takes some experience to be able to and internally, like kind of knowing yourself to know when, all right, like that's this is unfortunate. Like it's just these circumstances weren't great, but I just I have to pivot and maybe I'll be able to try tomorrow. Or maybe I have to totally you know, but to know that is hard and and that's unless you're very experienced as an athlete. I I that's why I don't really love those training. I mean, that's why I think it's helpful to have a c coach working with you because um 'cause you 'cause I think people kinda get themselves into trouble with those, you know, plans and then they they end up just kind of like maybe following it, but then they they don't know when to pivot or when to add initial recovery work and so then they just sort of like do the workout because it's prescribed and maybe they don't give it at all or the workout doesn't go as planned and then they sort of end up at the w at the race sort of subpar, you know, because they didn't they didn't or they didn't know, okay, maybe I'm feeling really good and I could add a little bit more even. I don't know, like it's just it's just then you kind of get there and you could have had a a a really good plan that somebody created that was really well thought out and they were listening to you and you had that sort of person telling you, hey, I think we need to pivot. And I think okay, that didn't go well, let's take a rest day and then try it. This I'm gonna put in another work, whatever it is. Like, and that person, you know, that that coach can get you to that goal, you know. Whereas I think a lot of people just follow these training plans and end up kind of eh, subpar. They could have done a lot better. They maybe don't know that, but I think most people could be doing a lot better if they had a coach. So agreed. I'm not trying to sell this as like coaching.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

I'm selling it.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Like, hire us. Well, I gotta get going soon because I I have to go to Home Depot for something.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Um so uh I want to thank you. I want to thank everybody for for tuning in this week. Uh it is greatly appreciated. So this has been uh what did I say? This was episode 81 of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast. So it's part it's part one of part of of a two-party.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

So people can maybe have some. Maybe maybe one is it's probably a good idea to get a coach. But let's if someone's like, I can't afford a coach, I don't I wish I could, but I can't. Like maybe just a few takeaways. I think mine, if I were to start, I'll give two and then I want you to give a few. Like maybe we can um one would be like I said in the very beginning, like knowing knowing your why, like really thinking about why, and not be, and if it's very outcome-oriented, really trying to figure out a way to everyday like the the process is the biggest piece to enjoy that everyday grind and everyday pro the process of it. So figuring out your why and not really digging into that and uh having something deeper to to that's motivating you. That would be one. And then the other one would be yeah, don't don't increase intensity and volume at the same time. That's a pretty simple one. Yeah. You have any like a couple of things.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Yeah, what are things? Put me on the spot here. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Um I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Uh I think the one the one takeaway that I would have is that um uh that it's okay to be conservative on the growth of your training plan. Uh it's okay to not increase week over week. It is okay to grow like 10%, 20%, depending on on how you're observing, what sport that you're training for. But that is not a hard written rule to where you must increase week over week. Uh it doesn't have to be a linear uh increase either. The rates in which you can increase can change by blocks. So the way that the way that you grow a training plan doesn't have to be consistent, um and that uh it doesn't have to increase all the time either.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

So you can stick somewhere for a while if you want.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

What would be another another takeaway? Uh I I think uh I think the other takeaway would be uh to be really realistic on your availability. Um really sit down and think hard about how much time you do have available to you uh and consider all of your life demands, your work demands.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Don't forget the resource.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Don't forget the recovery.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Like you gotta build all that in to that availability.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Consider all of the uh demands that you have on your time when it comes to creating your training plan so that you can create a training plan that you can execute and not one that you're holding on to your life to try and complete. Uh I think that that would be those are my two takeaways.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Awesome. There we go. I think we had to I just wanted to leave people with something that they can they could take away from this. That yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Alright, so this has been 80 episode 81 of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast, and it's been part one of a two-part series that we're putting together on how to create a training plan. Um, I want to thank you guys for joining us. If you've have enjoyed the content that we've been coming out uh with on the podcast, whether it was this episode or the 80 previous episodes that we've done, share them with people that you know that you think would be benefited and helped uh by stuff that we've been talking about. Uh again, if you've enjoyed this, uh please uh uh consider uh leaving us a review and a comment on wherever it is that you're consuming your podcast content from. I know that we're on several platforms, uh, but those are greatly appreciated. And because we do not monetize this podcast, we do not have ads, we do not have sponsors. Uh so all this stuff comes out of our own pockets for hosting and production of the podcast, but we do it because we absolutely love this process, and we love just getting on and just talking to each other about you know the sports that we love and we love sharing it with you guys. But it does help others find the podcast if you leave a review and a comment. So those are appreciated. Uh, thank you so much for that. We also have the private group on Facebook, and it's called the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast Group. Uh, all you gotta do is ask one or answer one simple question, we'll let you right on in. This is an area where we're starting to release some additional content. Um and uh I would love for for everybody to join the group and contribute to the community uh as we kind of fill this out a little bit. And uh thank you if you've already joined. Uh I appreciate that. Um we are as we've said before, we're both active coaches and we're we do take on athletes onto our rosters. So if you are considering uh a coach or you're just super busy and you don't have time to develop the plan or the workouts that are needed uh to for you to see adaptation and growth, and you just like to turn that over to somebody else, uh I hope that you will consider us as your potential coach. You can go to fuel the number two run dot com for Coach Katie. You can go to tabula rasso racing.com for for me, Coach Justin, and we'll be happy to talk to you about how we can help you uh along your journey and um see that you can accomplish the goals that you want to accomplish. Again, thank you guys for joining us. Uh it is greatly appreciated, and we will see you all again next time. From the endurance athlete journey podcast, I've been your host, Coach Justin, with Coach Katie. Later, guys. Bye. That was that was a marathon. That wraps up today's episode of the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast. Endurance sports have a way of teaching us patience, humility, and resilience. Lessons that carry far beyond the workout. Progress in endurance sports doesn't come from shortcuts, it comes from consistency, discipline, and doing the work when it's not glamorous. Wherever you are on your endurance journey, keep trusting the process and honoring the work you put in each day. If today's episode resonated, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone to help on their endurance journey. Don't forget to join the conversation on our social sites to help build and foster a community where we all learn and support one another. We'll be back with more stories and insights from Coach Justin and Katie. Until then, visit the podcast website at the endurance athlete journey.buzzsprout.com for more episodes from the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast. Have questions or comments about the podcast? Feel free to send us an email at the endurance athlete journey at gmail.com. For all things coaching, visit Coach Katie at fuel the number two run.com and Coach Justin at taboularassa racing.com. Again, thank you for listening to the Endurance Athlete Journey Podcast, and remember to find joy in the journey.